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Why are there 2 Web Mercator PCS's ?   William Patterson Aug 05, 2009
Re: Why are there 2 Web Mercator PCS's ?   Melita Kennedy Aug 06, 2009
Re: Why are there 2 Web Mercator PCS's ?   William Patterson Aug 06, 2009
Re: Why are there 2 Web Mercator PCS's ?   William Patterson Aug 31, 2009
Re: Why are there 2 Web Mercator PCS's ?   John Scrivani Nov 30, 2009
Re: Why are there 2 Web Mercator PCS's ?   Melita Kennedy Nov 30, 2009
Re: Why are there 2 Web Mercator PCS's ?   William Patterson Dec 01, 2009
Re: Why are there 2 Web Mercator PCS's ?   John Scrivani Dec 01, 2009
Re: Why are there 2 Web Mercator PCS's ?   Melita Kennedy Dec 01, 2009
Re: Why are there 2 Web Mercator PCS's ?   John Scrivani Dec 02, 2009
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Subject Why are there 2 Web Mercator PCS's ? 
Author William Patterson 
Date Aug 05, 2009 
Message There are 2 PCS definitions for Web Mercator in ArcGIS 9.3.1:

1.) WGS 1984 Web Mercator
2.) WGS 1984 Web Mercator (Auxillary Sphere)

They have very similar (the same?) parameters, except #1 uses GCS_WGS_1984_Major_Auxiliary_Sphere and #2 uses GCS_WGS_1984.

We want to use ArcMap to cache map services to match the projection used by Virtual Earth (Bing Maps), Google Maps, and the future ArcGIS Online (which is apparently moving to Web Mercator also).

So, which of these 2 Web Mercator projections should we use? Why are there 2 of them?

Thanks. 
   
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Subject Re: Why are there 2 Web Mercator PCS's ? 
Author Melita Kennedy 
Date Aug 06, 2009 
Message Hi Will,

We originally added the first one to support the sphere-based Mercator projected coordinate system that is being used by several of the web-based mapping applications. The projection uses spherical math. The ESRI Mercator supports both spheres and spheroids/ellipsoids. If you have a PCS that is based on a ellipsoidal GCS, the ellipisoidal math is used. The results won't line up with the web service data.

So we created a custom sphere-based "WGS84" to use with our standard Mercator math. A sphere that uses the semimajor axis of an ellipsoid is a "Major auxiliary sphere." However, that causes problem because technically you need a geographic/datum transformation to convert to GCS_WGS_1984_Major_Auxiliary_Sphere--but the transformation shouldn't do anything. (Some transformation methods will change the latitude values between an ellipsoid and a sphere)

Later in the development cycle of version 9.3, we ended up adding a special version of Mercator: Mercator_Auxiliary_Sphere. It has a parameter (Option) which you can use to specify whether to use the semimajor or semiminor axis, or calculate an authalic radius, if based upon an ellipsoidal GCS. That way you can use the standard WGS84 GCS, thus getting rid of the transformation requirement.

Because it went in so late, the other teams couldn't switch to the 2nd version for 9.3.1. I believe you can only publish with the first one still.

Melita 
  Melita Kennedy
ESRI Product Specialist 
   
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Subject Re: Why are there 2 Web Mercator PCS's ? 
Author William Patterson 
Date Aug 06, 2009 
Message Thanks Melita,

Let me see if I understand completely..

So, #2 will be the future ESRI Web Mercator projection for ArcGIS Online, etc., but it is not yet fully implemented? So in the meantime, we may only be able to publish services (and cache) with #1? Is that correct? If so, if we spend weeks caching data with #1, will it work with the future ArcGIS Online projection? i.e. if we want our cached data to align with future ArcGIS Online (is it just a subtle tweak in the definition for our cached map service that we can make post-caching).

Thanks. 
   
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Subject Re: Why are there 2 Web Mercator PCS's ? 
Author William Patterson 
Date Aug 31, 2009 
Message Here's some follow-up on how to prepare map services for integration with Google, Virtual Earth (Bing), and future ArcGIS Online content. The following information is based on additional research and feedback from ESRI support folks:

- ArcGIS Online will be transitioning to WGS 1984 Web Mercator (Auxillary Sphere) - noted as #2 in the first post. The transition is currently planned for around November 2009. Existing ArcGIS Online services in GCS_WGS_1984 will also remain around for a minimum of six months after the new services go live.

- The help document referenced at the following link mentions to use WGS 1984 Web Mercator, but is apparently incorrect and has been reported to the ArcGIS Server team for correction.
http://webhelp.esri.com/arcgisserver/9.3.1/dotNet/designing_overlay_gm_mve.htm
Use WGS 1984 Web Mercator (Auxillary Sphere) instead. 
   
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Subject Re: Why are there 2 Web Mercator PCS's ? 
Author John Scrivani 
Date Nov 30, 2009 
Message We have data in NAD_1983_HARN datum (both Virginia State Plane zones) and when we choose the Web Mercator Auxillary Sphere as the projection, with the NAD_1983_HARN_To_WGS_1984 transformation, the datum shift persists. Are we choosing the wrong transformation or is this a known problem? 
   
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Subject Re: Why are there 2 Web Mercator PCS's ? 
Author Melita Kennedy 
Date Nov 30, 2009 
Message Hi,

The "new" Web Mercator definition is based on the standard WGS84 geographic coordinate system, so it could be correct to use NAD_1983_HARN_To_WGS_1984 transformation. Are you seeing a shift in the data relative to other services?

Melita 
  Melita Kennedy
ESRI Product Specialist 
   
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Subject Re: Why are there 2 Web Mercator PCS's ? 
Author William Patterson 
Date Dec 01, 2009 
Message Clarification on Web Mercator and ArcGIS Online is now available here:

http://blogs.esri.com/Dev/blogs/arcgisserver/archive/2009/11/20/ArcGIS-Online-moving-to-Google-_2F00_-Bing-tiling-scheme_3A00_-What-does-this-mean-for-you_3F00_.aspx

 
   
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Subject Re: Why are there 2 Web Mercator PCS's ? 
Author John Scrivani 
Date Dec 01, 2009 
Message Hi,

We are have one layer in NAD_1983 and another layer in NAD_1983_HARN. When we choose the transformations NAD_1983_To_WGS_1984_1 and NAD_1983_HARN_To_WGS_1984 the datum shift persists between the two layers. If we set the map document coordinate system to either NAD_1983 datum we can use the NAD_1983_To_HARN_Virginia transformation to remove the shift. We can't seem to find a way for the two layers to align in WGS_84. Thanks - John 
   
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Subject Re: Why are there 2 Web Mercator PCS's ? 
Author Melita Kennedy 
Date Dec 01, 2009 
Message Hi,

Oh, I see.

The two transformations you're using when converting from NAD83 and NAD83 HARN to WGS84:

NAD_1983_To_WGS_1984_1
NAD_1983_HARN_To_WGS_1984

assume that they are equal to WGS84. For the NAD83 data, you should use the Create Custom Geographic Transformation tool in ArcToolbox. Close ArcMap (you'll need to restart it after creating the new transformation anyway).

The tool is in the Data Management toolbox, Projections toolset.

For the name, perhaps use NAD_1983_To_WGS_1984_Virginia. Select the North American Datum 1983 for the input coordinate system and WGS 1984 for the output coordinate system. For the method, select HARN and in the dataset name parameter, vahpgn. OK.

Select this transformation rather than NAD_1983_To_WGS_1984_1.

Melita 
  Melita Kennedy
ESRI Product Specialist 
   
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Subject Re: Why are there 2 Web Mercator PCS's ? 
Author John Scrivani 
Date Dec 02, 2009 
Message Melita,

That did the trick. Thank you for the quick and very helpful response.