Unsolved Mysteries... Temporarily Solved!

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Unsolved Mysteries... Temporarily Solved!	Ron Upton	Apr 02, 2003
Re: Color Shift Problem - Got Cyan?	Chad Cooper	Apr 03, 2003
Re: Color Shift Problem - Got Cyan?	Ron Upton	Apr 03, 2003
Re: Color Shift Problem - Got Cyan?	Chad Cooper	Apr 03, 2003
Re: Color Shift Problem - Got Cyan?	Ron Upton	Apr 03, 2003
Re: Unsolved Mysteries...	Ron Upton	Apr 07, 2003
Re: Unsolved Mysteries...	Ron Upton	Apr 09, 2003
Re: Unsolved Mysteries...	Aaron Wisher	Apr 10, 2003
Re: Unsolved Mysteries...	Aaron Wisher	Apr 10, 2003
Re: Unsolved Mysteries...	Aaron Wisher	Apr 10, 2003
Re: Unsolved Mysteries...	Ron Upton	Apr 10, 2003
Re: Unsolved Mysteries...	Cassandra Lintin	Apr 10, 2003
Re: Unsolved Mysteries...	Aaron Wisher	Apr 10, 2003
Re: Unsolved Mysteries... Temporarily Solve...	Ron Upton	Apr 10, 2003
Re: Unsolved Mysteries... Temporarily Solve...	Chad Cooper	Apr 10, 2003

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Subject	Unsolved Mysteries... Temporarily Solved!
Author	Ron Upton
Date	Apr 02, 2003
Message	Using ArcMap 8.2 and printing on HP 5000 PS3 60. Have over 500 maps to output and am experiencing a dramatic color shift from cyan to med blue. The printers are not new and have been working very well for over a year. ArcView 3.x printed cyan just fine. I have updated the HP driver to no avail. My client is very picky about the colors, and cyan to med blue will not go over well. Spent many hours converting maps from .apr to .mxd and everything was going well until it came time to output. Newly created .mxd files have the same problem. I really do not want to output 500 maps to .pdf then print though adobe. Blah! Anyone else run into this? Work arounds? Ideas? Thanks in advance.
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Subject	Re: Color Shift Problem - Got Cyan?
Author	Chad Cooper
Date	Apr 03, 2003
Message	are you using the postscript driver or the hpgl2 driver? i have better results on our 5000ps with the PS driver...
	Chad Cooper South Dakota Geological Survey

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Subject	Re: Color Shift Problem - Got Cyan?
Author	Ron Upton
Date	Apr 03, 2003
Message	Chad, Thanks for the response. We are using the ps driver too. I have been downloading the latest drivers from both HP and Adobe, and although the new drivers function well, the same color shift takes place. Interestingly, if a map feature (a symbolized point colored cyan) is converted to a graphic it prints just fine. Only the non-graphic map features are experiencing the color shift. Arcs, points, and polygons make a big change in color, while graphics do not color at all. Strange. Cyan is the only color doing this. I've replaced both cyan cartridges without luck. Attached is the about box for the driver I am using and an example of the color shift.
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	colorshift.jpg (opens in new window) psdriver.jpg (opens in new window)

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Subject	Re: Color Shift Problem - Got Cyan?
Author	Chad Cooper
Date	Apr 03, 2003
Message	ron, this is strange..so the colors are the same between the apr and mxd (actual color codes, as close as you can get them)?? and the cyan looks correct on-screen? so when you print the apr with "x" printer settings and then turn right around and print the mxd with "x" printer settings, you get the different results? some thoughts...have you changed media or media profiles lately? have you posted this on the hp5000 online forum or given them a call?
	Chad Cooper South Dakota Geological Survey

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Subject	Re: Color Shift Problem - Got Cyan?
Author	Ron Upton
Date	Apr 03, 2003
Message	"so the colors are the same between the apr and mxd (actual color codes, as close as you can get them)??" Yes. The apr value for this color is 128,255,255 hsv, and the value for mxd is 180,0,0 hsv or 0,255,255 rgb. "cyan looks correct on-screen?" Yes, the color looks correct on the screen. It is also the correct color if I export to a raster image or print to pdf. "so when you print the apr with "x" printer settings and then turn right around and print the mxd with "x" printer settings, you get the different results?" That is exactly what is happening. I can print from ArcView 3.x and it works great. Printing the same thing, only mxd, and the color changes. Bond or glossy on two different 5000 printers and the results are the same. Weird. I'm off to the hp5000 online forum. Thanks for the suggestion. Has anyone else experienced this shift using this color? Is it a HP or ESRI thing?
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Subject	Re: Unsolved Mysteries...
Author	Ron Upton
Date	Apr 07, 2003
Message	I'm still losing cyan, and guess what HP is saying... it's an ESRI problem. I would give anything for a colorblind client right about now. Anyone else losing colors when printing to a HP 5000ps series printer?
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Subject	Re: Unsolved Mysteries...
Author	Ron Upton
Date	Apr 09, 2003
Message	In the voice of Ben Stein: "Anyone? Buler?" I cant believe I'm the only one experiencing this problem. Perhaps a bribe is in order... I'm dying here!
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Subject	Re: Unsolved Mysteries...
Author	Aaron Wisher
Date	Apr 10, 2003
Message	I print to a 60in. 5000ps, I haven't noticed a shift that dramatic. I ussually print to the rtl side though. Currently I am printing the calibrate.mxd document provided by ESRI, to see how it looks.... I'll report back...
	Aaron Wisher

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Subject	Re: Unsolved Mysteries...
Author	Aaron Wisher
Date	Apr 10, 2003
Message	Ok! I'm in your camp now. When I printed the calibrate.mxd natively from ArcMap to our HP 5000ps, the colors (most notably cyan) were completely wrong. My 100 level cyan in the 0% yellow table is exactly what you are describing. The bad part is that the CMYK values at the top for the zero level print black when they should be clear/blank. Actually, all color tables are completely wrong.... disgusting!
	Aaron Wisher

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Subject	Re: Unsolved Mysteries...
Author	Aaron Wisher
Date	Apr 10, 2003
Message	update... I just printed again from pdf, and..... same results! Except that C,M,Y, and K zero values are blank like they should be. So it must be HP as near as I can tell. However, it prints ok from the RTL side... Make one wonder if it was worth the extra money for postscript.
	Aaron Wisher

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Subject	Re: Unsolved Mysteries...
Author	Ron Upton
Date	Apr 10, 2003
Message	Aaron, So I�m not crazy, well, maybe just a little. Thanks for taking the time to check it out, and for the tip on the script for pdf output. I have got to get past this. Yeah, the extra money for ps is turning out to be bs. Our printers have worked flawlessly for some time now, but when we switched to 8.x this suddenly became a big problem. I'm considering downgrading back to 3.1 (how sad is that?), at least until my project is complete. Thanks again.
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Subject	Re: Unsolved Mysteries...
Author	Cassandra Lintin
Date	Apr 10, 2003
Message	The extra money you are paying for PostScript is worth it - you will need the extra RAM and hard disk the comes standard with the PostScript-enabled printer to process your print jobs. If I understand you correctly, you are printing with the ArcMap PostScript printer engine. Please try printing with the ArcMap Windows printer engine. I think you will find much better results and HP will be able to help you adjust any color shift you want to make when you are using their driver.
	Cassandra L. ESRI

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Subject	Re: Unsolved Mysteries...
Author	Aaron Wisher
Date	Apr 10, 2003
Message	well unless you get a HP 500ps witch has neither a hard drive or alot of RAM. :-) I tend to get much more predictable results on all of our plotters (8 total) using PCL and processing the jobs on the PC to eliminate out of memory errors. When the majority of my plots are over 300 MB, having a 200-300 GB Hard drive really doesn't do much for me. :-)
	Aaron Wisher

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Subject	Re: Unsolved Mysteries... Temporarily Solved!
Author	Ron Upton
Date	Apr 10, 2003
Message	I've been printing via PS for so long now that it never occurred to me to go RTL. Duh! Thanks to Aaron for the wake-up call. I just downloaded and installed the RTL driver and it seems to work just fine. I will be spending the rest of the week pumping out product 24/7, now with cyan. I will be all over HP to get a solution for this PS bs. Thanks all, Ron
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Subject	Re: Unsolved Mysteries... Temporarily Solved!
Author	Chad Cooper
Date	Apr 10, 2003
Message	ok fellas, heres my take on the battle of the 5000, the war rages on every damn day for me :-) i printed calibrate.mxd using the windows print engine using both the PS and HPGL2 driver...good results for both, actually virtually identicle, which is interesting, for when i print my maps using the two different drivers, i get different results..go figure.. however, when i printed calibrate.mxd using the PS3 driver and the PS engine, i got the results like you guys, blacked out 0 values, and cyan all screwy... i have always used the windows print engine and get better results (as far as good colors and cripsness of lines) with the PS3 driver...when i used the HPGL2 driver, my maps are all washed out and dull-looking.... good luck, we all need it, eh? Chad!
	Chad Cooper South Dakota Geological Survey